Took a UCLA Extension class in 1984, learned tube bending with Bill Needham (who was teaching the UCLA class at the time). Worked at his shop in Venice part-time for about a year, then part-time at Signal Hill Neon, Designer Neon in Lawndale for a few years, then Larry Albright in Venice from 1993 to 1997. While there I learned how to work with Borosilicate glass, made lots of miniature (3mm tubing) neon for movies and commercials, assisted Larry with plasma displays, and crackle neon for all kinds of installations. I worked with Laddie John Dill from 2012 to 2016 making his "Light Sentences" tubes. Have been active in teaching tube bending at Museum of Neon Art since 2016.